Clarification Q1

Question 1

SR Asked:

How can God judge someone for something that they didn’t do?”

The original answer is an attempt to explain what happens to a child who dies immediately after birth. The Bible never tells us this directly. Do they get saved even though they have never accepted Jesus? Do they go to Hell because they have never accepted Jesus? My reasoning is based primarily on God’s foreknowledge; God knows in advance how people are likely to turn out. Even we, as humans, know people we trust and people we don’t. That does not mean we know everything they will do in the future, but we know the nature of the things they will do. Added to this, after 6000 years of human history and billions of individual lives, it will be very clear, when all the books are opened (and all the videos are shown) where people belong, and what someone with a similar spirit would have done. God’s Judgement will be in accordance with His justice, His love, and His mercy, and also with the requirement that rebels cannot be allowed into Heaven to cause the same mess that we have on Earth. I also believe that Justice will not only be done, but be seen to be done. See also Question 6:

6 Do Men Understand Exactly how God Works?

No. The belief that they do is based on pride. Men have neither the perspective, the knowledge, nor the intelligence to know exactly how God works. Any attempt to tie God down to a few simple mechanisms is a futile endeavour, based on pride. We are not called upon to understand God, but merely to have Faith in him; that does not mean having Faith that He exists, as that is obvious from what has been made. It means having trust and confidence in what He does and will do.

Sins Visited on the Fourth Generation? Is That Justice?

The statement that sins will be visited even to the third and fourth generations of the the Fathers is one of the more worrying ones in Scripture. The Bible also clearly states that everyone is to be punished specifically for his own sin. Theologians can and do debate this endlessly. We think the answer is simple, and found in the latter part of the article on Predestination here.

Wanting to Offend God? Is it better to be Gay or Violent?

 

Homosexuality and violence are rarely out of the media for long, whether they are in the news or presented in fictional portrayals. But they are rarely mentioned in the same sentence as here. And there is a widespread view that Homosexuality is especially offensive to God, whilst violence does not carry the same stigma. How does such a view arise, and is it correct?

The dreadful Westboro Baptist Church of “GOD HATES FAGS” fame in Topeka, Kansas, cannot take the whole blame for this. They are but one tiny church among thousands with varying views. But their claims get some leverage because they claim to be Bible-based, and almost everyone, however thin their Biblical knowledge, knows the account of the destruction of Sodom by God. Sodom, the city which gave its name to sodomy; and the Sodom event being the only time God chose to rain destruction on a whole city (more accurately five; four apart from Sodom itself).

It turns out that this is a fine example of a little knowledge being dangerous. Digging a little deeper, we see that some of the men of Sodom wanted to rape two male visitors to the city. This precisely parallels another event in the land of Benjamin, described in Judges, where men demanded sex with a male visitor. The difference in the two passages is that in the Sodom account the visitors were protected supernaturally; in the Benjamin account the demanding locals were given a woman, whom they raped to death. There’s just a bit more going on in these passages than homosexuality:

1) Total failure to welcome and care for visitors.

2) Total disregard for the well-being of others.

3) Rampant, uncontrolled sexuality, whether homosexual or heterosexual.

4) Violence to the point of murder.

And although the incidents each only involved a limited number of men, it appears that the rest of the populations were doing little about it. Their silence made them complicit.

So which of these offences upset God so much? We are not told in either passage, but elsewhere in Scripture we read that the people of Sodom were punished because they were “overfed and did not care about the poor”. Does that mean that God was happy with the other behaviour? Clearly not. You don’t need to be a great Bible scholar to know that. When it came to living godly lives, the people of Sodom had lost the plot completely. So why the imagined specific connection to homosexuality? Actually it is only because of a post facto (after the event) adoption of the name of the city to mean homosexual sex. Ignore that, as you should, and the story of Sodom changes completely.

We can dig deeper still. A full search of the Bible reveals only about ten occasions when it addresses homosexuality directly, and that’s on the basis of including the two references already discussed. Only ten references in about seven hundred and fifty thousand words? Anybody who wants to make a case for gayness being especially offensive to God on the basis of that is definitely on a losing wicket! (Note that there are other places where Sodom is mentioned, and people assume a specific reference to homosexuality, but this is not in the text. Sodom stood for unrestrained godlessness.)

Another event that warrants specific mention, that almost certainly references homosexuality, is in Genesis 9, when Noah becomes drunk and his son Ham “uncovers his nakedness.” Because of this Noah puts a curse on Ham and his descendants. But here again, if the homosexual inference is correct, there is more than that; there is rape, incest, deceit, and even boasting and/or an attempt to corrupt others. Interestingly, given the question posed in this article, Genesis 9 also contains crystal-clear warnings about bloodshed. The idea that the Old Testament allows violence apart from that commanded or specifically sanctioned by God is wrong.

There is still more. The belief that the Sodom event was the only time God poured out mass destruction is in itself incorrect. Sodom was a walk in the park compared to Noah’s Flood. And if you don’t yet know that Noah’s Flood was real and global, look at the Science Page here, and the Evolution Page here. The Flood wiped out everyone except Noah and his family. The World, we are told, was wicked, evil and corrupt, all of which is a little vague when it comes to knowing what exactly the pre-flood people were up to. However, just one thing does get a specific mention: there was a huge amount of violence. So whatever else we may surmise, it is clear that there was at least one common factor that brought about both the destruction of the Flood, and the destruction of Sodom. That factor was violence.

The answer to the question posed in the title is clear. There is no wriggle room. People may say that the the argument above is based on the Old Testament, but the New Testament goes even further, confronting us with the command to love our enemies. Others point out that God Himself has used violence. But God has taken exclusively to Himself the right to use violence in Judgement, and the times when He has done so happen to be rather few. He has used men at times to execute such judgement, but that does not give men the right to use it on their own initiative. People professing Christianity need to be extremely wary of having even a faint smell of blood on their hands. Take note here that Judicial Execution for law breaking is probably the most acceptable form of violence; but when Jesus came across such an execution he aborted it. He did not question the guilt of the person concerned; in fact He confirmed it. And He did not question that the law in force at the time prescribed the death penalty. He did, however, abort the execution and sent the woman on her way. If even legal execution is unacceptable, what form of violence can ever be?

They key points here are that Homosexuality has been hyped into a Mega-Sin in the absence of Biblical Support, and the promotion of that concept has helped to obscure the wrongful nature of violence, and also the wrongful nature of heterosexual activity outside of marriage; we don’t hear quite so much condemnation of that from the Churches. As ever, the need is for people to read Scripture for themselves, ignoring the biased representations that too often come from Press or Pulpit.

Catholic Tony Blair and Protestant George Bush are well known for engineering the Iraq War. Their actions and professions of Faith send a message to everyone, be they Christian, Atheist, Muslim or anything else, that Christianity and violence can fit together; they do not. We cannot deny the Church connections of Blair and Bush; but we must deny that they or their respective churches are in any way representative of genuine Christianity.

 

Can You Get to Heaven if You Never Knew About Jesus?

An argument often used against Christianity is that, since Jesus is the only “Name by which men are Saved”, people who never hear about Jesus must go to Hell, and on that basis Christianity is unfair. However, Paul makes clear in Romans the role conscience plays in guiding our behaviour. This is not as great a means of Salvation as that which comes through Jesus, since there is no benefit in this life, only in the next. But it is, never the less, a clear route to Salvation.

The anti-Christian argument put forward on this “Jesus Only” basis misses its mark, apart from the reason given above, because by definition it is put forward by those who have heard about Jesus. What they are doing is citing an alleged injustice against people they do not even know, in order to justify their own rejection of Christ. It is a classic piece of anti-Christian rhetoric based on ignorance of the Bible.

Just to be clear, there is no justification in this for following conscience rather than Jesus. The conscience route exists for people with no knowledge of Jesus. Those who know about Jesus but reject Him in favour of their own conscience are making a fatal error.

See also Why We Don’t Normally Give Chapter and Verse Bible References.

Free Will and Predestination: No Contradiction!

The Free Will/Predestination problem has taxed the minds of many, and still does. Frequently a fruitless debate between Calvinism and Arminianism takes place. I believe the answer can be found with a little exercise in thinking through, with the usual caveat that our understanding of God is never perfect because His intelligence and knowledge are so far above our own.

Some key points that must be incorporated into any rational understanding of the supposed dichotomy here are as follows:

1  Men must be accepted as having Free Will, because God is just and cannot possibly punish men for something they have no choice about.

2  The Bible talks about Predestination, so in some sense Predestination must occur.

3  God has foreknowledge.

4  Men have a body and a spirit. The body is locked into time, but the spirit is eternal, unless destroyed in Hell . For the period that we live our spirit is effectively locked into Time because it is locked into our mortal body. When our body dies, the spirit is released.

5  What a man really is, is his spirit. It is the spirit that has Free Will. The body is only so much clothing around the spirit, with no Will, although its natural needs and desires may well prove a temptation for the spirit.

Most of the points above are not controversial, and those that are have at least been debated at times. The next points I wish to raise, however, are rarely considered. Where does a man’s spirit come from? How is it given? When is it made? There is something a little strange here. Considering the general acceptance of a person’s spirit being released back to God when we die, how is it that we never seem to ask how it gets into the body at birth?

From our simple human perspective there are only a limited number of possibilities here. The spirit, which we accept is God-given, may come into the body at conception, or at birth, or perhaps sometime in between, or even shortly after birth. And the spirit might be made at that time, or may have been made earlier. Finally, a particular spirit may come into a particular body by chance, through some sort of celestial lottery, or it may be placed specifically by God into a particular body.

For our purposes here, we need not consider the first point. We can just accept that the spirit enters around the time of conception or birth. Regarding the time when the spirit itself comes into existence, Scripture gives no clear indication. I take the view that it is pre-existing in eternity. This is at the very least a possibility, and fits with the thesis I am presenting here. Regarding the issue of lottery or choice, I opt firmly for the latter, and given all that we know about God I’m sure many will readily accept this is likely the correct choice.

Some other issues need to be discussed before making a synthesis of these points. One is that God gave Dominion over the Earth to Adam and his descendants; this dominion is given in the very first chapter of Genesis. If we acceppt Free Will, which as pointed out at (1) above is scripturally  necessary, God cannot know every detail of what will happen in advance. The idea that God knows everything and nothing happens outside of his Will is false. It should be obvious that a very great many things happen which are outside of his Will, so He is clearly not taking control. If He did, all those bad things we see would  not happen, and God would not be fulfilling his decision or promise in Genesis to give Dominion over the Earth to Man. You can’t give a child the responsibility to walk to school on his own, and also put him on a lead and walk behind him with a big stick, hitting him whenever he departs from your constant and precise instructions. You give responsibility, and the power that goes with it, or you don’t. God gave us both.

In view of the above, it might be asked how anything called Predestination can happen. But consider people born in different places, at different times in history, into different classes or castes. We can see even as mere humans that much of what happens to people is effectively predestined. If we know people half-way through their lives, such that we also know their level of intelligence, their motivations, their particular skills and shortcomings, all in addition to the human and physical environment they live in, we can know with a fair level of accuracy what they will do next year. That does not mean knowing if they will have beans or egg on their toast next Wednesday; it means knowing the general direction of their life. We cannot predict everything, for as the Bible itself says, time and chance happen to all men. But the general progression is normally pretty clear.

Now try to see the same thing, but from God’s viewpoint. He understands far better than us any particular human environment. When He places a spirit in a baby, He already knows the inclinations of that spirit. He can see them far more clearly than we ever can, not only because He is God, but also because He looks upon the spirit He has created before it is clothed in a human body.  There are no outward appearances to deceive him, even if that were possible.  This is His foreknowledge. When he chooses where to place that spirit He knows not only the Human environment it will grow up in; He also knows the parents intimately; He also knows the precise DNA makeup of the new person, which includes whether it will be male or female. There’s a lot of predestination in all of that; yet the spirit, from the moment of its creation, has Free Will, and retains that Free Will throughout its life in a human body. It reacts to the situation it finds itself in according to its inclinations, be they loving or aggressive, rebellious or obedient.

Has your life been predestined? To a large extent it has. God chose where you would live, at what time in history, with which parents, and with what DNA. But within those limits you show your Free Will by the way you respond to the situation God has chosen for you. Free Will and a very significant degree of Predestination are not contradictory.

Predestination 101

 

Yes, You have a spirit!

But how did you get it?

Predestination? Let’s start from a different angle:

The belief in the existence of a Human Spirit in each one of us is widely held across many belief systems, and, of course, is also Biblical. Ideas about the Spirit after death are also commonplace. But what about before birth? How does the human spirit come in to a human body? Where, if anywhere, was it before? These are obvious questions, but questions which nobody seems to ask, never mind answer.

All agree that the Spirit is eternal. For our purpose here it is enough to accept that “eternal” means beyond time and beyond the material world.

Logically, there are only a limited number of possible answers to the questions above :

1 The spirit existed before it became part of a person

2 The spirit came into existence when the person did.

3 People’s spirits attach to them randomly.

4 People’s spirits are placed in them by God’s decision.

The answers here have a powerful bearing on what the Bible says about Predestination. Calvin’s views on this are widely accepted by Churchgoers and Atheists alike, and naturally used by the latter to portray God as an ogre. But Calvinistic views are blasphemous – they present God as cruel and unjust, when the Bible makes it clear that though He may ultimately punish, He is overwhelmingly loving, patient and forgiving.

I am certain that answers one and four above are correct and provide a proper understanding of Predestination; that is, the Spirit existed before it became part of a person, and people’s spirits are placed in them by God’s decision. Firstly, the Scripture tells us that God has “foreknowledge”. This is often taken to mean that He knows exactly what will happen in all cases ahead of time. In reality it simply means that he knows each spirit in much the same way that we know other people. We cannot predict exactly what they will do and when, but we have a good idea of the sort of thing they will do; we know if someone is honest or dishonest, whether they are selfish or generous, and so on. Given our knowledge of their motivations and thinking, we have a fair idea of what they are likely to do in any given situation. Because of God’s infinitely greater understanding, and because He sees the “naked spirit”, not clothed and camouflaged in a human body, His ability to predict future actions is streets ahead of ours. Notice that this analysis is completely compatible with Free Will. The fact that God has foreknowledge of a spirits’ inclinations before He places it in a human body in no way effects that spirit’s Free Will.

The debate about whether men have Free Will or not should never have taken place in a Biblical context. Since God is both Just, and also punishes men for wrongdoing, the conclusion that men must have Free Will is unavoidable. Those who do not accept Free Will must deny that God is Just. They are making an error that is roundly condemned by almost the oldest book in the Bible, the Book of Job. It is a long and difficult book, but those who take the time to read it properly will discover that it has a very strong message: Do not ever question the Justice of God.

The second part of the answer, that God chooses the Spirit for each new-born, completes the understanding of Predestination. God not only has deep knowledge of each individual spirit, but he also chooses the time and place that it will live on Earth. This does not mean that every single act or incident is either laid down or known in advance; but that the particular desires of each person/spirit, added to the particular environment in which it lives, makes for a highly predictable path through life.

This also explains how God justly punishes the sons of God-hating fathers to the third and fourth generations, while showing love to a thousand generations of those who love Him. For those who love God, part of the blessing is to have descendants who will receive God-loving spirits. For those who hate God, part of the punishment is to have descendants who will receive rebellious spirits. Thus everybody (every spirit) ultimately receives punishment for their own wrongdoing; there is nothing of naturally righteous people taking a beating because of what Great-Granddad did. However, because the love descends for thousands of generations, it seems a lot of rebellious spirits will be blessed on Earth in ways they don’t deserve.

See also Free Will and Predestination: No Contradiction!